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| PHIL SHOENFELT interview with Robert Fröwein for Kronen Zeitung (AT), September 2020 |
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Phil, Chris - you recently played a wonderful gig at Fluc in Vienna, even though the journey was anything but easy in times like these ... Phil Shoenfelt: Not only is it all very adventurous, it is also educational. We have to adapt to the rules and laws of each individual country, because what else can we do if we want to continue touring? Kristof Hahn really wanted to come, but the whole band had agreed at midnight on Wednesday 9/9 that we would cancel both the Prague and Vienna concerts. Otherwise, if they entered Czech Republic, the Berlin guys would have to go into quarantine on returning to Berlin. The four of us in Dim Locator had a last-minute conference call at 08:00 on Thursday morning and changed our decision. We decided to drive to Vienna via Regensburg and Passau and avoid Czech Republic altogether. Kristof Hahn is our special guest, not a member of the band, and I didn’t want to wake him at 8 o’clock in the morning and say, “Hey Kristof! We’ve just changed our minds! Pack your suitcase and be ready to drive the 940 Kms to Vienna, we’ll pick you up in half an hour!” I would have been embarrassed to do that, especially as there was no financial guarantee. So only the core band members came and we left Kristof to sleep in peace. But I talked to him on the phone yesterday, and he said he would have come if he had known we were not going to travel via Czech Republic. So it’s a pity, but we had to take a quick, last-minute decision. If the Ebensee Kino gig goes ahead as planned on 26/9, Kristof will be there with us. Chris Hughes: We are currently in the “Winds Of Chaos”. But we are artists. We either sit around at home or try to be creative as best we can. We had the chance to do a concert in front of people who were looking forward to it, so we struck. Shoenfelt: This is rock'n'roll, our breath and our blood. As I said, we even thought about calling off the whole thing because of the huge distance. We had a door deal in Vienna, so we could have driven almost 2000 kilometers (Berlin-Vienna-Berlin) and received no money if only 4 people had showed up. (laughs) Peter Nachtnebel, the boss of Fluc, generously put in some extra money to cover transport costs, but we didn’t know about this until he paid us after the gig. It is mainly thanks to our bassist Baron and our guitarist Daniel, the younger members of the band, that we got off to a good start. “Come on guys, this is punk rock” said Baron. “What about you old guys Shoenfelt & Hughes?” (Laughs) He was right! Did you regret the decision? Shoenfelt: Not at all. The only thing we regret is that Chris lost his expensive sunglasses somewhere in the club, or walking to the hotel after the gig. And boy, was he pissed off! Hughes: It's an essential rock'n'roll accessory. I can hardly do this interview without them. It's all twice as difficult. (laughs) Shoenfelt: But organizer Peter treated us really well, we got a free bottle of Jack Daniels, enough beer and a clean hotel. The pay was fair, and as I say he added money for transport costs over and above the door deal. It was really great. Chris and I almost got into each other's hair over breakfast because of the sunglasses. But we've known each other for a good 30 years now, and we actually love each other. We’re like an old married couple! (laughs) A trip like this must almost be reminiscent of the good old days, when a tour always had something adventurous about it and you never really knew what you were getting into? Shoenfelt: Rock’n’Roll is always adventure, but that's what we live for. I'm 67, Chris is 55, but we still have the same punk rock attitude as we used to. It's like an existential statement. For us, only two things are important in life. Love – whether for a wife, family or friend – and rock'n'roll. Of course you need money to live and play, but it’s not our primary target. Hughes: You always have to maintain the essential things in life. Vienna is one of our favorite cities, we always love to play here and the decision to come was spot on. We were here with Fatal Shore back in 1999, and with Dim Locator and Harry Howard in 2014, so the relationship with this city goes back a long way. Phil has also played here many times with Southern Cross. If you sit in the car for more than twelve hours to look forward to an uncertain gig, it must be pretty tough mentally too ... Shoenfelt: I felt great and was full of adrenaline. You could also see that the fans were starving and urgently needed this gig. The exchange of energy was excellent and that's what it's all about. Hughes: We live for the music and for the stage. What else is it about? Fuck off! Shoenfelt: Who knows what is still to come? At the moment you can only look from day to day, there is no other way. Hughes: Lots of bands wouldn't have played this gig, but we're passionate about the stage. "Harnessing The Winds Of Chaos". Maybe that should be the title of my biography. (laughs) Shoenfelt: I live in Prague, and since the Czech government lifted the lockdown on May 14th, it has been possible to hold concerts with certain restrictions. Just a few days ago I played an outdoor festival in Prague in front of about 900 people. Up to 1000 people are allowed at outdoor events, and 100 inside clubs. But Prague will probably be locked down again soon, and nothing can be planned with certainty. Politicians always say they “follow the science”, but different scientists have different opinions. It sure as hell is tough getting the virus under control. But as I understand it (and I believe this information comes from the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin) approximately 83% of people who test positive for the virus have only mild symptoms, or no symptoms at all - just loss of taste, smell, headache, sore throat or cough. In other words, similar symptoms to seasonal influenza. But for the other 17 or 20 per cent – mainly people in their 70s and 80s, and people with compromised immune systems – the effects can be really serious, even fatal. But so can seasonal influenza… Anyway, we should all take precautions as much as possible, in terms of hand-washing and keeping out of people’s faces. Just as you would with influenza during the winter months… Hughes: You could roughly say that one in 25 dies as a result. This is a serious problem. I know a lot of New York musicians who died from it. Corona is not a myth. Shoenfelt: People have to be considerate to each other as much as possible. But I always try to do this anyway, and we're moving within the legal area as far as we can. What else should we do if we want to continue to play rock'n'roll without getting fined or arrested? Hughes: What should we do with Zoom concerts? That's bullshit. Rock'n'roll people just can't do that, it's ridiculous. We have to play in front of people. This is theater. It's about the sweat, the exchange of energy, the noise and the feeling. Hughes: Exactly, and that's why we're musicians. It's all about this. Shoenfelt: Of course it is risky for all parties. Musicians, fans and organizers. But I lived in New York in the early to mid 1980s, when AIDS was at its peak. I had unprotected sex and took loads of intravenous drugs, sharing needles and injecting heroin and cocaine into my veins. These days I take NO DRUGS at all (except alcohol) – I don’t want to push my luck more than I already have! I was more paranoid back then in the days of HIV/AIDS, Hepatitis C, dirty needles, and badly cut heroin than I am about Covid today. I am no longer young, but I will not hide at home. I hope we can all get out of the chaos safely. Hughes: My father lost a leg in World War I. This is of course not a comparison, but people certainly didn't feel better in the past. What is the current situation in the Czech Republic? Shoenfelt: On March 12th the government closed the borders and the airport in Prague. In the Czech Republic there have been (until now) approximately 430 corona deaths. However, the number of infections has risen in recent weeks. I find it somewhat ironic that Great Britain has put Czech Republic on the quarantine list. Isn’t it bizarre that a nation (Great Britain) that has between 45,000 and 57,000 corona-related deaths puts a country with 430 deaths on the quarantine list? Total bollocks! Fuck off Boris Johnson and his incompetent, computer-modeling, algorithm-obsessed advisors! In the Czech Republic they had the problem under control for several months, and until two weeks ago that was still the case. You can still play concerts there, I've played around 20 since mid-May. After Vienna we should have played with Dim Locator in Prague, but the boys all live in Berlin and it didn't work because last Wednesday the German government put Czech Republic on the “danger list”. Therefore, the Berliners would have had to go into quarantine when they got home. So I played the Prague festival last Saturday with a Czech backing band, while the rest of Dim Locator drove back to Berlin via Passau. Hughes: I had to cancel an entire world tour because of Corona. Touring as we know it no longer exists and I'm not sure if it will ever be again. People are increasingly hoping for a vaccination. The question is whether people's minds are sometimes so free that people dare to go to such big events without further ado, despite the possibility of vaccination? Shoenfelt: Personally, I will not take any vaccine that is rushed through without proper testing, just to satisfy politicians who want to claim credit and use it to get themselves re-elected. It could be highly dangerous and could make matters worse. Everything will change, for sure. I suspect there are several different agendas that are being pursued simultaneously. But I DO NOT believe that everything was planned by the Illuminati, the Rothschilds and Goldman Sachs. I’m not into huge conspiracy theories, they simply don’t add up logically. I don’t believe the proposition that the virus was intentionally created in a laboratory in China (or America, as the Chinese say) and spread around the world by Bill Gates and Xi Jinping. I believe that it probably came from a bat or pangolin in the Wuhan wet market, just as most scientists have said. But I also believe there are many forces who want to use the virus opportunistically to their advantage: “Under Cover Of The Covid”, to misquote an old Rolling Stones song. The powers-that-be WANT to frighten people in order to get more control over them. Fear sells very well in the mass media and on Facebook/Twitter, advertisers get more exposure. And Covid is a much better policeman than any CIA, MSS, FSB or MI5 agent. I believe that governments everywhere are increasingly nervous about the huge numbers of people moving around the world at will. Whether it’s because of terrorism or because of refugees/immigrants, they don’t like these uncontrolled movements. The Covid virus is the PERFECT opportunity for governments everywhere to increase police powers and electronic surveillance – all with the excuse that they are “protecting” our grandmothers. And of course, not many politicians are fans of rock and roll and other random gatherings of people. Such gatherings are a nuisance for them. I’m not saying I’m 100% correct here, I'm just saying what is POSSIBLY going on. Perhaps at some point only the rich elites will be able to fly around the world because the airfares will be so expensive. Goodbye Ryan Air, goodbye Easyjet, goodbye cheap holidays in the sun for office workers and assembly line workers. Only the mega-rich will be able to fly. Exotic beaches will be much less crowded for them, without obnoxious British football hooligans shitting and vomiting in the sand! On the ecological “green” side, the demise of air travel is a good thing too – much smaller “carbon footprints”. This is what I mean by several intersecting agendas – Covid is an excellent control mechanism right across the board – from radical right to radical left… Hughes: People are on the move and travel. They have been doing this for as long as they exist and it seems that we want to change that now as possible in the wake of the crisis. The planet would be greener if humans didn't even exist, we already know that by now. Shoenfelt: The oligarchs, of course, have their secret bank accounts and trade orders back and forth, small companies go bankrupt so that the big companies can buy them up cheap and monopolize the world. It is the Chinafication of the world. (laughs) I hope I'm wrong, but it would be a possibility that doesn't seem completely unrealistic. From taxes to immigration to terrorism, the governments naturally want to control everything. That’s why these people become politicians in the first place, so that they can control other people and get rich in the process – it’s what they do, they enjoy it! It's always about power, fear and control over others. Another agenda could be that Covid is just the vanguard for a much bigger pandemic in five years or so. Perhaps the monitoring and surveillance technology is now being installed and deployed everywhere in order to test that it is working satisfactorily. A practice run, in other words, for the next pandemic – like road- testing a new car. In Great Britain there is absolute chaos, the “testing and tracking” has totally failed. Germany has been more successful, because, as everyone knows, the Germans are obedient to authority and extremely efficient (laughs). Hughes: Germany, New Zealand and Austria have a plan. Everything seems very well considered, but nothing works in England or the USA. In Germany, the individual federal states have different programs, which also seems to work very well regionally. Shoenfelt: So many people in the Czech Republic test positive, but most of them just lose their sense of taste or smell. I also take a homemade Covid test each morning by smelling under my armpits (laughs), But seriously – very few people have died of Covid in Czech Republic and the intensive care beds are pretty empty. But the virus CAN be really dangerous. In England - for whatever reason - thousands have died. Hughes: It is obvious that the virus is spreading differently in different countries. I don't know if there is just one virus, it seems to be changing or expanding a lot. How do you see your future in the next four or five years? Shoenfelt: Wait and see - what else can we do? Things are crappy at the moment, but compared with what our grandparents and great-grandparent went through in the two world wars, Covid is nothing. We are spoiled children compared to them. We simply have to adapt and do what is possible. Hughes: Yes, we have to adapt, but it's frustrating. It's like being choked off as musicians if we are not allowed on stage. Everything that is possible now is not the same. No matter what we do. The situation sucks for many, but especially for us. That's just a fact. We are not supported and if you do not have the calculated income from concerts then your life will be ruined very quickly. It's a damn existential problem, it goes way beyond the fun of a gig. It also affects the way you then make music. You cannot be liberated at home if you are constantly under severe fear of your life. The scenario is incredibly frustrating. I'm really scared that a conventional tour by a rock band as we know them will no longer exist in this form. Shoenfelt: We do what is possible under the law. We don't have any other choice at the moment. None of us are interested in paying thousands of Euros in fines just to upset the existing regulations. We are not so rich… A concert in Ebensee would have been planned on September 26th ... Shoenfelt: That looks okay at the moment, and we intend to go ahead with it. But who knows? Rules and regulations are changing each day. It always depends on how the borders are open. Getting to Ebensee from Prague could be difficult if the Austrian government puts Czech Republic on the “red list”. I would then have to take a Covid test and stay in quarantine in Austria till I get the results. Actually, it’s a great opportunity to have a holiday in the Austrian Alps – except I wouldn’t be able to go outside! But whatever happens with live concerts, I intend to stay creative, just do whatever is possible. That's the only message that makes sense right now. If live music becomes outlawed, I switch to novel writing. I’m working on one at the moment, actually. Hughes: Who are you? Fucking Hemingway? (laughs). Why are you writing a book anyway? Shoenfelt: Because I've gained experience. Hughes: Experience ... everyone has experience. What makes you stand out? Shoenfelt: Nothing in particular, but everyone has the right to write books, Chris. Are you doing the damn interview now? (laughs) My first novel “Junkie Love” will soon be published in German for the first time. That will happen in 2021. So far the novel has only been available in English, Czech and Italian. I have already published two works from my New York trilogy and am currently busy finishing the third part. These books are currently available in Czech, then all three should be published in English. I was in New York between the late 70s and mid 80s - in the “good old days” of cheap drugs and loose women. “Stripped” (the New York trilogy) is about that unique time of late 70s and early 80s New York. If you are not creative, if you don’t take chances with your life, then you are slowly dying. Do you also work harder on new songs for all the different projects in which you are involved? Shoenfelt: Chris works on soundtracks and instrumentals. I released my solo album “Cassandra Lied” in January and Chris co-produced the disc. Without him, I would never have managed it all. This is the album I've wanted to make all my life. Hughes: For both of us it feels like the best album we've ever made. Shoenfelt: As annoying as Chris can be, he has an unmistakable taste for aesthetics and good sounds. I really appreciate that, because I blindly trust his taste. Even if I want to punch him in the face sometimes, as he probably wants to punch me! (laughs) Hughes: The collaboration was just great. Kristof Hahn plays lap-steel noise guitar on several songs. He was also involved in the production. The album is incredibly personal and intense. Was it hard to open up so much? Shoenfelt: I don't want to get lost in details, but between 2016 and 2018 I went through a “difficult” time. It was VERY extreme, very intense, I had to end a relationship that would have killed both me and the other person if it had gone on any longer. VERY destructive indeed. The lyrics are obscure at times, and it wasn't until much later that I realized what I had actually written. But I think you can get a good idea of what was going on by reading the lyrics of “I Hate Myself Today” and “Shadowland”, for example. “Just A Man” is something else entirely – the lyrics to that song are like a mixture of Friedrich Nietszche and “The Tibetan Book Of The Dead”. But like I said, I couldn’t have got the SOUND on the album without Chris’s amazing input and aesthetic taste. Hughes: We're good friends, for 30 years now. There is a difference between simply working well with someone and having a real friendship. If the chemistry is as good as it is with us, then something special comes out. Our connection can also be heard musically. Good albums always come from the right chemistry. Shoenfelt: I wrote the lyrics to “Cassandra Lied” when I was slowly calming down from this terrible time. I wrote them over an eight week period in the summer of 2018, and didn’t bother wondering what it was all about until much later. I felt very confused at the time, but I allowed my unconscious to spew everything out. Some things are also prophetic. The title of the CD “Cassandra Lied” is highly ambiguous in itself, if you think about it. It could be interpreted several different ways. Hughes: There are so many double interpretations and references on the album. One can try to decipher it as a listener. Shoenfelt: Chris works very intuitively and he immediately understood the meanings of the lyrics. More than I did, actually! The music ultimately complements the words, and though I also wrote all the music, Chris’s unique drumming, his EBow guitar and backwards guitar, and his production advice are all crucial to the actual sound of the album. Kristof Hahn’s input was also really important. By the way, Chris’s favorite line in the song “Just A Man” is: “Introspection weakens me, damages my mental health” - that is a paraphrase of something I read by Nietzsche years and years ago, but the meaning is very present, especially in these days of Covid. The lyrics and music took me eight weeks to write, but it took us 15 months to record the album. I was in the studio for 318 hours in total. Chris came to Prague from Berlin once a month, stayed a week each time at my place, and contributed his drum and guitar parts, as well as his production/mixing advice. I can’t emphasize enough that without his input “Cassandra Lied” wouldn’t be the work of genius that it is. Yes, I’m very modest, aren’t I? (laughs). But you will find that over the coming years this album will stand out as a true classic. Hughes: Usually when a band takes over a year to make an album, it’s an over-produced, self-indulgent disaster! (laughs). But “Cassandra Lied” is different – it works and has a totally original sound and vibe. Shoenfelt: We could have asked Tony Visconti or Brian Eno do the mix, but we weren’t rich enough to afford their services! We had to do it ourselves. But we definitely took our cues from them. Also from “Krautrock” bands of the 1970s, such as Neu! and La Dusseldorf, When you're already writing your personal magnum opus, don't you ask yourself what's next? Shoenfelt: No, I'll just wait. Before "Cassandra Lied" I had written a few songs in the previous few years, but I hated them. They sucked, actually, and I had a real uninspired dry spell. "Kingdom Come" and "Resurrection Day" were the only two I liked from that period. Now I feel like I'm back on track. I've been writing new songs for Dim Locator, but they will be completely different from what you can hear on “Cassandra Lied”. This particular album really only deals with that extreme period of time that I had to go through. It all came out by itself, pages and pages of text, which I later had to edit. I didn't even have to think about it much. I don't push myself to do more songs now. I simply wait until something comes up. Hughes: I recorded a new album with Hugo Race in Australia last year. That happened in three sessions. We are currently talking online, there is no other way. We just do what is possible. That's why it was so nice to be physically on stage with Phil in Vienna. Shoenfelt: Until "Fluc" last night, we hadn't played live with Dim Locator since the “Cassandra Lied” release party in Berlin at the end of December 2019. I felt so free when I crossed the German border last Monday and drove from Prague to Berlin. All the media-promoted Covid-terror and claustrophobia vanished like Scotch mist at dawn. Then we rehearsed for two days and went to Vienna. Again, a big “Thank You” to Peter Nachtnebel for making it possible. I move within the legal framework, I wear my stupid mask when the law says I have to, and I wash my hands several times a day – which I have always done anyway, it was part of my education when I was a little kid. Even when I was shooting heroin in New York, I always washed my hands before handling the needle – I was a very hygienic junkie! These days I’m kind of a hermit, I don’t go out so much at all – not because of Covid, but because I’m bored with most of what is happening outside. My idea of a good time is to sit in front of my computer with a bottle of red wine and work on my book or on new songs. But I refuse to let myself be intimidated by the scare tactics of politicians and the media – if I want to go out and see a band, or meet with friends in a bar or restaurant, I most certainly will do so, though I will act with common sense and consideration for other people. Fear has always sold well, that's nothing new, look at McCarthyism in the USA in the 1950s. Just keep to your own path, don’t let yourself be intimidated and knocked off balance by malignant forces. And keep the faith for the regenerative powers of Rock ‘n’ Roll! Hughes: We just do it Jesse James style these days. (laughs, as he pulls his bandana over his nose and mouth, like a bank robber). *** “Cassandra Lied” and various Dim Locator recordings are available at Vienna’s Rave Up Records (the best independent music store in Central Europe), or on the internet via Amazon and similar outlets. |